JayCS’s Fibro Blog

Symptoms & Treatments
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Hi there, good “morning”! Ideas for this got me out of bed, but priorities interrupted them… * sigh *

After the nice personal welcome’s and reactions in this forum, I’d like to try sharing my daily experiences with you, focusing on helping me live with and do more about my symptoms more consciously. It’s a need of mine to interact, will unburden people around me, and who knows - may interest or even help you in your fibro-life… :wink: Both my writing and your reactions will help me think and improve things, so please ask and comment directly whatever you like.

An overview of where I am fibro-wise: After decades of pain thru back, skin, gut, nerves and anxiety I got to keep all of these well under control. Still contributes to having “30” diagnoses and has lead to more and more new habits, but also a mindset of happiness and optimism, blessed by a great deal of energy & motivation & joy to help others and increasingly myself.
A periodic ache led to the fibro-diagnosis floating around between my GPs and myself for quite a few years (8?). My increasing stiffness made my wife worry about rheumatism. That drove me to
get appointments at 2 rheums last autumn, just in time to start the machine running whilst my full flare got under way. The local one meant waiting for 6 months, so I arranged another in between, further away. That first one ruled ankylosis sp. out, and also fibro, the second in Feb20 “ruled it in”. To rule out ank.sp. I was sent to quite a few different specialists, who found a tumor, a probably harmless chance finding, but nothing else. These starting experiences made me look further and further, taking up suggestions, ending up with now 40+ specialists in 25 different disciplines, incl. a centre for rare diseases and a rheum. clinic and further chance findings of cardiovascular issues (genetic hyperlipidemia, 5 meds, even stricter diet). At the same time I was skeptical as regards medicine, funnily. This was nurtured by quite a bit of insight into university medicine, herbal medicine and my own research over years, plus the fact that my body - esp. gut, skin & seizures - doesn’t tolerate much meds, not even necessarily herbal. That lead me to look for and try all kinds of herbs and alternative treatments against pain and sleeplessness. Meaning altogether 60+ “treatments” (incl. “tricks”). Most didn’t help, a lot harmed. Against my core fibro-symptoms about 8-10 treatments have remained: whole body cryotherapy, “acupressure-massage” (& osteopathy), cold showering, Wim Hof’s breath-hold exercise, putting legs & arms up, “yoga” back and hand(/arm) exercises, arnica cream and a hot water bottle. None! of these were ideas from docs, the main 4 (with 1 spin-off) were ideas from 3 good friends, who I am very thankful for! (And they are very glad they could help me, too.)
My core fibro-symptoms are: Big Ache (can be with shakiness, fever-/flu-feelings), quick exhaustibility (with energy-spurts under 3 mins.), stiffness all day after not moving a while (originally 10 mins.), strong need for sleep (9 hours, not easy to get), problems sleeping (I wake 3-8x, 30mins-4 hours every night), and need for warmth. I have been in a continual flare since a flu last autumn. My “8” treatments have got the flare under control, but it is still there, I couldn’t go without them, with them I have more energy for sports, activities and my sleep is better.
After 10 months I will be starting work in 10 days, with 2 hours a day for 4 weeks, adding the same amount in that pace, if I manage. I tested it last week with 30 mins a day, and it was hard. But my only remaining therapist (cryo/acupressure) pretends to be confident she’ll get it even better… I’m doing my best. I’m managing to increase my activities (stooping & climbing stairs has got better, table tennis longer, shorter & more active breaks). Main focus at the moment is improving my sleep, because on one of the days I will have to somehow get up and function at 7am… O.o

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Tonight my sleep was quite successful (8h25): Got up 3x (20 mins).
My 4 problems were peeing, nose, gut and noise:

  1. I’ve improved my main problem, having to pee 3-8x per night, by drinking less and putting the heating on a bit, so the room air doesn’t get quite so cold. Drinking/peeing is a problem day & night, because I am dry all over (“sicca”), but also have a very sensitive bladder (I sometimes think that may be related somehow, but if so, no-one know that yet). Drinking soy milk instead of more watery drinks considerably helps the bladder I found out 4 months ago. I’ve been trying to drink 2l before 2pm, and was fairly disciplined in that (well OK: 4pm). But my self-discipline was going down, because I was still having to pee a lot at night. The kidney specialist this week didn’t find anything, just pointed back to the urologist, who hadn’t been able to help me either. But he said 1,5-2l would be enough (which my wife protests against), especially since I eat a lot of raw veggies and joghurts, soy and dairy. The 2l wasn’t really reducing my dryness. All of this making me less self-disciplined, not even counting the litres properly anymore. So I want to go try going back to the 2l before 2pm. So I’ve got some drinking to do !now!
  2. The other big problem is one or the other of my nose-sinuses closing a bit between 3 and 7am, obstructing my breath. An ENT (who did the Sjögren-lip biopsy on Monday) prescribed me cortisone stuff, but I’m not getting that, cos of my med-intolerance. The alternative was a nose douche (yeti), which the pharmacy suggested, I’d always just used cups, not a real set, which I thought might help me not get too awake at night. But even this professional set made my nose burn so much that it took me 15-20 mins. to get back to sleep, so no help. Instead I’ve been reverting back to using nose strips and changing & fixing my head position using my combination of 2 small pillows plus if necessary a hot water bottle on my feet, so that it doesn’t obstruct my breathing. Also playing around with the heating, not too hot, not too cold, 19°C seems to do the trick, but the more heating the more I have to remember to cream my nose inside, because it’s always dry. Did that before going to sleep, I should make that a habit. I put the heating on an hour before going to bed, then off. Then on again when I get up and the room air is cold (often after a hot flush at about 3am). And if the heating makes ticking noises I have to put my ear plugs in again, unless I find a way to reduce that (by changing the combination and amount I put the neighbouring radiators on).
    (The other alternative my local ENT suggested was an operation, but I know that will cause adverse side effects for me too.)
  3. For a gut problem tonight, the only idea I have is too much dairy yesterday… Have to keep an eye on that too, I’ve been thinking about that lately, because I had the impression that a fairly vegan month 2 months ago was good for my gut. (Since I can’t tolerate a lot of food and do like eating dairy stuff, it might be good to eat as much dairy as possible. But I hate having to use and kill baby animals to do so, so I only buy stuff that is “expiring” anyway.)
  4. I could have improved my sleep depth in the morning if I’d’ve immediately put my ear plugs in as soon as I’d heard the first noise outside. I’m wary of the plugs tho, cos I feel freer without and my ears have been feeling kind of muffled for the last week. So: I want to renew my habit of putting them in if I can’t get to sleep inside of 10 mins. or the neighbour-TVs are too loud, take them out upon first waking. And then putting them in again upon the first outside noise in the morning.
    Writing all this down and probably reading it too, is tedious * sigh *, it seems so tiny stuff, but these are the baby steps which will improve my sleep, so it will be worth it in the end, it already is. Half-consciously thinking all of this has helped quite a bit, but this makes it more disciplined & clearer, and that’s what I need to be able to work.
    What I have to keep in balance is not to observe & think too much for writing this blog. But I do not agree with people who have tried to tell me that observing myself is bad for me. It is necessary, good for me and generally in balance.
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Breath-holding exercise better for energy than cold showering(?)
After cold showering 2 mins, which often helps a lot, I went outside to play table tennis. But the cold outside was I problem and I had Ache and felt weak. In the break after the first game I held my legs up while lying down 5 mins. Got the exertion of the first game down. After the 2nd game I did two rounds of breath-holding (50 secs. & 100 secs.). That reset me completely, incl. the Ache and weakness. I was so relaxed I lost the next game, but then my energy went up and I only needed 2 min. leg-up-&yoga-breaks and won the 4th & 5th easily.
For work that means: proper breath-holding could help me more than cold showering (conveniently!..), but I will need a short break after the breath-holding. I also assume I will have to spread out my work day with lots of breaks in between, rather than getting things done quickly and not recovering before the next day. I’ll have to allow for and communicate that.

Cryo(therapy) after table tennis was good. But not as directly effective on my energy when it’s cold as when it’s warm/hot outside. I’ve reached the max. of 150°C/-250°F in the cold “barrel” (I started with -110, because -130 hurt at first, then as soon as it lost effectiveness I went “up”), so I’m now increasing the cold-effect by not wearing gloves anymore (just rubbing my fingers or putting them out to the top), putting my head under, doing deep breathing & knee bending and holding my arms and hands away from my body. Cycling home was pretty fast, alternately; going up the 23 steps to our flat was slow, but at least without breaks. When it’s warm outside I can run up stairs 2 at a time after cryo, like I used to be able to, as if I was well. Since it’s got cold, I feel the fibro all the time. But at least I’m coping with the cold much better than I thought I would. Wind is remaining a big problem tho.

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Sleep good - net 9h40* + 4 short breaks 25 mins:
1. Peeing good: Drank 1,5l+0,8l yogh+400g raw veg. Acupressure Friday against dry mouth.
2. Nose better: Hot water bottle head → feet. No heating. Worse before. “Breathlessness.”
3. Gut better: No dairy. More psyllium.
4. Noise good: Ear plugs as planned.
5. Pain before peeing better: Leaning forward AND pressing behind necessary. More at the mo.
6. Hyperacidic stomach burning good: Drink & Gastritol. (Small raw potato used to help.) > Tomato?
7. Thigh good: Hot water bottle 3 mins.
8. Writing this (→ church/work ideas) good: autogenic training/meditation 5 mins.
9. Calf-cramp good: Hot water bottle 2 mins.
10. Wisdom tooth crater good: Hot water bottle 1 min.
11. Short sharp stab in right shin.
12. Ellbow & wrist pain gone: Acupressure. Only at day 2x (> cold, cycling.)

Great: I copied this text, opened “Reply” and it was already inserted as a quote. TJ: Is that your work?
*= I used to subtract drowse-time at 50%. It has a positive effect since I don’t. Tonight it that might have been -25mins.

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Sleep good - net 8h55* + 6 breaks 1h15:
Same as night before except:
2. Heating, wasn’t as good as hot water bottle & swapping blankets, so off again.
3. Gut better: Despite dairy.
5. Pain before peeing MOSTLY better: Same.
8. Writing this: Getting up 3x in a row was too much → should’ve cold showered quicker!
11. Short sharp stab in neck area
13. Lumbar pain good: Hot water bottle 4 mins. Many stabs during day.
14. Clavicle pain OK with: HWB5’. → Acupressure / Trigger pointing.
15. Sharp stab in knee, longer: HWB5’
Negligible for sleep tonight: All except 5 & 8 & 10 & 14.
*= Would’ve needed more sleep cos of comfortably drowsing too much cos of 8 & not cold showering quickly enough, but someone was jumping around in the room above, ear plugs weren’t enough.

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7 days before starting work:
12am: ** confused *
Little pain (clavicle), little Ache, little exhaustion, despite 6 games of table tennis incl. stooping for balls, using yoga, legs & arms up and 3x1 round of breath-holding.
But I lost almost all games, last one I suddenly won 21:8. (I usually win most.) So what’s up?
I think tired and weak, despite pretty good endurance.
It just *wasn’t enough sleep & praps not deep enough.
So I’ll have to get to bed earlier and not get up 3x in a row. Of course…
If it doesn’t sound crucial: My table tennis performance is to my measure of my being able to return to work - this meaning: On a day like this I’d be dead knackered from working 1 hour…

Additional problems: The cold and wet weather is making the whole body cryotherapy and the cold showering less effective. When I’m outside it’s sometimes making deep breathing more painful. I’m hoping my nostrils’ll get used to it (10°C/50°F).

2pm: Hmm - maybe I’m just automatically accepting my limits today and they started with 70% …
Cycling to & from cryo was good, somehow even overtook an e-bike, cryo was really good → 85%, and I’m enjoying the coolness of the air with sun and no rain/dampness, beautiful day…

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Hi, JayCS!
I missed much of this, as I didn’t check the site all weekend. (Often rest much on weekends, since I work from home through the week.) I can only imagine how tired a person would be, waking up to 8 times a night! My main issue is getting to sleep, and then I’m okay till morning (But, I confess that my night medications play a big part in the “staying” asleep).
I’m interested in the sensitivity to noise - Is this also a part of fibro? I actually haven’t looked into (studied) that yet. I have terrible tinnitus - Often loud, high pitch, digital sounding noise in my head. I did go to a specialist years ago - They even did an MRI on my brain (I DO have one, btw - LOL), but no issue there. It is probably partly genetic (My dad had it bad), probably connected with my bruxism, and maybe b/c of all of the years playing with a band, cranking up those earbuds to hear the drummer (and, other instruments, of course).
I’ll come back and read more of the diary, as I can. Thank you!!!

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Hi AussieMom - Thanks! Yeah, sensitivity to noise, smells and light is part of fibro,
but also part of HSP - my non-fibro wife has all 3, and tinnitus too… so I can feel how bad that is.
But I’m not sensitive to noise (or the others) myself, we “just” have old neighbours that are getting deafer and turning the TVs louder and louder, above and below my bed. Now I need much more sleep with fibro, they go to sleep after me and get up before me. This morning sounded like kids jumping around, but her grandchildren haven’t been here since CoV so we assume she’s started some new exercises… O.o

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Sleep fairly long/good: 9h25 minus 50 mins = 8h35. OK, but start with stiffness plus ‘lead suit’.
At 9:30pm my neighbours’ TVs prevent me from sleeping. Focal seizure at 10pm, praps stress.
Cold showering 10:10pm helped plus 2am. Enough sleep before 7am tho. (good for work.)

  1. Peeing good (is cause of waking only 2-3x/n)
  2. Nose better: Hot water bottle (HWB) forehead, no heating; then: massage, pull nose tip down, get up for 5 mins.
  3. Gut good.
  4. Noise OK: Ear plugs & blanket over head aren’t enough before 11pm and after 5am (neighbours): Noise cancelling headphones next, or change room.
  5. Pain before peeing gets alleviated.
  6. Hyperacidic stomach burning good.
  7. Thigh 3x good: HWB 3 mins.
  8. Writing this good: just shortest notes.
  9. Calf-cramps 5x good: HWB 2 mins.
  10. Wisdom tooth crater 6x OK: Hot water bottle 6x5 min. Apply Marigold essence.
  11. Short sharp stabs in 6 different places OK (elbow, clavicula, back, 4x right loin!!, neck): HWB
  12. Ellbow & wrist pain gone.
  13. Lumbar pain good: HWB preventative.
  14. Clavicle pain good: HWB preventative.

The pains (7 & 9-14) are ‘normal’ part of the going to sleep (again), but did prolong this quite a bit.

Negligible for sleep last night: All except (1 pee 2 nose) 4 noise, 10 tooth. So:
1) Headphones.
2) Marigold essence.
3) Acupressurist: stabs, esp. right loin; plus dry mouth & wrists (& elbow) better.

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Day 6 before starting work…
11:30am: 6 table tennis games, no problems, could’ve done more, the cold outside’s OK too.
Still gleaning/reaping from the cryo yesterday, sleeping enough and the 2 cold showers.
It’s not cortisol energy, it’s real substantial energy that’s there now, so I’m carrying on carefully.
12:30: Short doc visit was careful, yard-work definitely wasn’t, so legs&arms up & yoga.
Would’ve been a good condition to work even 4+ hours in. :slight_smile:
6pm: Feverish under a scarf as mask-substitute, deep-breathing helped immediately! Is this the clou?: Deep-breathing/breath-holding for more oxygen against fever, esp. when masked (as was the problem at work)?
8pm: Wet, 13°C, but sped to a friend in need and back, still fit.

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LOL, JayCS, no telling what the old neighbors are doing! (sorry - couldn’t resist - I hope they don’t hurt themselves!)
Loud TV’s would annoy me hugely!
Thank you for the answer - I will definitely study this further when time allows…
Also, I’m sorry for your wife’s HSP - sounds awful!
AM

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Sleep long/good: 10pm-8:10 = 10h10! minus 30! mins = 9h40! (Might’ve been 1h drowsing in between).
Thanks to you, AM, I ate 3h before and did back exercises in bed: very pleased. :heart_eyes:
Cold showering 5:10am helped. Too long for work, but I’m testing and filling the reserves up.
High energy, Ache: 3 of “7”: Breath-holding? → later, helped.

  1. Peeing good: primary cause only 1x/n
  2. Nose not good enough: HWB, massage, nose tip, getting up. Sinuses?→Sinupret (herb pills).
  3. Gut great.
  4. Noise great: Changed room till 11:30! What a difference!
  5. Pain before peeing good: leaning forward becoming habitual.
  6. Hyperacidic stomach burning great (altho not eating enough!)
  7. Thigh great.
  8. (Not) writing this (at all) great. :wink:
  9. Calf-crampsl great.
  10. Wisdom tooth crater 6x not OK: Marigold essence longer. Cold didn’t help.
  11. Stabs great. (Loin 2x daytime)
  12. Ellbow & wrist pain great.
  13. Lumbar pain great.
  14. Clavicle pain great.
  15. Itchy scalp OK: Wash hair earlier, *dumbo.

All negligible last night except
2) Nose → Sinupret
10) Tooth-hole → More Marigold essence, 1-2 hours in mouth?

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Day 5 to starting work…
10am Ache: 3 of “7” better by breath-hold 2x1 in table tennis breaks, but weaker by short breaks due to drizzle, 4 games. Getting used to the lead suit… :crazy_face: :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Tell Acupressurist: stabs, esp. right loin; plus dry mouth & wrists (& elbow) better.***

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Congrats on #8! LOL
Probably TMI, but I’ve always had terrible stomach pain with my IBS flares. Do you experience this, and what, if anything, helps? (I do have meds I take for this - sometimes they help & other times, not so much.)

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Ooh, shouldn’t be writing any more, but I’ll close the laptop for the night in “a minute”… I think.
Recounting my symptoms, I separate stomach from gut/bowel pain, i.e. hyperacidity from IBS, i.e. burning insatiable ‘hunger’ from wind/diarrhea.
I’ve also had other types of pain or strange feelings, but these are the ones that still crop up most as soon as I don’t keep to my diet.
So just to be sure, before I delve in my “repertoire”: How would you describe your stomach pain? (or - just looked up TMI :wink: - per PM?)

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Sleep short, ever so slightly complicated: 10:15pm-7:00 = 8h45 minus 1h25 mins = 7h20.
Feels enough, early enough for work next Thursday. 2x Cold showering helped. With open bathroom windows to let the damp out.
High energy, Ache: 1 of “7”

  1. Peeing good.
  2. Nose good: Sinupret (herb pills), changing sides was enough.
  3. Gut great.
  4. Noise great: Late enough not to have to change room. Ear plugs when gran marched around with her army boots at 6am.
  5. Pain before peeing pretty good.
  6. Hyperacidic stomach burning great: Sip of soy drink once was enough.
  7. Thigh good: 1x.
  8. Thinking this good: Pda (palm) next to bed to save walking nextdoor, noted a lot of helpful stuff.
  9. Calf-cramps: Need more stretching (turning)
  10. Wisdom tooth crater great: Marigold all day helped. Soy drink just not on that side!
  11. Stabs: Few, right waist, no loin, a bit: buttock, knee, ankle. (Half-)lying on arm is possible again!
  12. Elbow & wrist pain: When cocked. Tendons, not joints!?! Pins’n’needles.
  13. Lumbar pain OK: Don’t forget yoga.
  14. Clavicle pain great.
  15. Itchy: Scalp great, nose, face, leg,
  16. Sleeping together 90 mins great. (Unthinkable a few months ago, unthinkable not to a few years ago)
  17. Hot: Air before sleep if warm outside, swap blankets & trousers off earlier. Cold helped.
  18. Lying on chest: Sometimes obstructs oxygen-need.
  19. Lying on back: Soft palate noisy after a few mins. → turn head -→ 0.
  20. Thorax: Small hard cushion under it → 0.
    BTW: Changed back to a !sensitive deodorant, without alcohol.
  21. Headache: Slight → Deep breathe → 0.
    22: Dream: Stumbling & falling at work. Men ganging up around me → Breathe → 0.

Day 6pm: Feverish → 2 mins. deep breathing → 0 again!
All negligible tonight except the amount!!
2) Nose → Keep Sinupret
10) Tooth-hole → Keep Marigold essence.
13) Lumbar: Yoga!

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Day -4
10am: Energy for 6+ snappy TT games, with legs&arms up & yoga. (warm, no rain, no wind.)

New pain stoppers:
Instead of stooping: Right leg lunges forward, right arm rests on it, and pushes up, after…
Thigh pain (bad Jan-Apr): Stretch by turning body away from pain leg. Good for foot too.
Calf stretch: Better leg back, not leg forward stretch. Both whenever standing (combine?)
Neck: Let it *really rest on a pillow when half-lying down. (I tend to hold it up!)

5pm: Weary (5 of 7) after 4h-“day trip” despite 20’ legs-up & 20’ yoga → 11.5’ breath-hold → 1/7.
8pm: Ache back up to 5, so it was probably not the “hard” day but the hard night. Cold shower before bed.

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LOL - I’ll go ahead and spill it. Maybe it will help others to be gross right along with me…
Umm, instead of the “normal” feeling folks get when they need a BM, sometimes I have stabbing pains in my gut and feel like I’m giving birth - no joke! My hubby heard me yelling (from pain) (in the br) once and thought maybe I really was giving birth. (post menopausal, so that ain’t happening).
I lean toward IBSD, rather than IBSC, and lately my body just decides to have what I call a “dumping” day, where I’m constantly in the bathroom. Thank goodness I work from home! :grimacing:

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Sleep long, happy, still tired: 22:05-7:30 = 9h25 - 30’+20’ AT(autogenic training)/meditation = 9h15.
Medium energy/weak, Ache: 2 of “7” Back exercises in bed. (No hot water bottle necessary all night!)

New: Bed earlier, at least 15’.
More at day: Thorax exercises & back yoga, hair wash.
Keep up at night: pda in bed, heating off, at day: thigh & calf exercises (lying down works too), 10’ Marigold, 1xSinupret, deep breathing all the time, esp. when masked.
22: Dream: “Fell from a cliff” once, altho ‘fun situation’; “no” fear, so continuing the dream by imagining “flying away” not necessary. Interesting how a small fear of going back to work is cropping up at night now.

My abbreviations tonight (roughly), in case you’re interested how I manage to keep notes short at night:
20-10-22 22:03 1:09p 2:50 itchy face (& back p) 4:11 Scarefall(altho cliff-fun).nos (5:30i 5:40pd thi3->turn->0)10’ 7:18i 7:28gym/loo15’ AT.i20’
p means pee. nos means nose stuffy. i means ‘ideas’ (usually work or music, no stress) d means drink, “thi” means “thigh” thi3 means a pain of 3 out of (10; 7 meaning having to cry for pain), turn means doing the thigh stretching exercise in bed “→ 0” means “getting it down to zero”. I don’t write down 5’ for -5 minutes any more, that’s assumed if I don’t write down the minutes directly after the abbreviated reason. The 5:30 one is spontaneous: I put a bracket round what happened and counted it as 10’, because I counted 5’ of it as sleep. As I said above I don’t discount drowsing any more, calculated optimism. I get up when my eyes “feel awake”. If it’s not enough sleep, I cold shower.
I then count the minutes per night longer than 8h, in this case 1h15, and add them up for the week on Saturdays. I aimed for 0 in the 5 years before fibro. Now I (have to) aim for +7h, i.e. 9h/d on average.

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No sense in beating round the bush, this is just very real pain… ;-(
Well - I guess same here, or used to be, since I was a teen, until I got it more and more under control since my 30s. It’s still there - in the clinic I had it again, even when they’d given me what I thought was OK. Then realized that it was the celery, which I don’t usually eat. And chewing the zucchinis better.
OK, let’s sort it out first. This all may seem to be the stomach, as you said, because it hurts there too, but in my experience *this is only the gut, which is so blown up that it puts pressure on everything, right up to the heart and chest, until it can explode - again and again…
Stomach pain itself would be something like burning or feeling as if gotten hit in the stomach, it would be more isolated and in the height of the sternum. Or have you got something there too?

Our several pounds (1-5) of bacteria, our gut flora gets imbalanced, with or without inflammation.
Sensitivity to some food and meds can disturb the whole system, meaning an intolerance.
One relief type is finding out which of them is irritating you, using elimination diet, gluten-free, vegan, low carb (esp. low *simple carbs) or similar,
the other is natural meds that support the bacteria, i.e. a) probiotic bacteria, b) yeast e.g. Saccaromyces-boulardii or stop the diarrhea and bloating with psyllium (with *little water, otherwise it does the opposite…).

For food you could use websites like this for starters:


As said there are a *lot of foods I can’t eat, but there are so many good alternatives. But it does mean being prepared to stop/abstain & change first. An elimination diet starting with only 5 foods helped me a lot there.
Another starting point if that seems too difficult might be the worst days. Usually it’s foods or meds that I took on that day, often the reaction is inside of 10-60 mins. That helps you narrow it down to the main irritators quickly. In the case of meds I look thru the list of adverse effects in the product information: If gut or stomach is on there anywhere, I will react. In the case of a specific food, after leaving all known irritants, I will look on the web. It could also be a combination, so the Hay diet helped me for a few years, i.e. separating carb-laden and protein-laden meals, also animal- protein from plant-protein meals (e.g. only little cheese with potatoes, or with soy).

Should I put this all on symptoms & treatments btw?

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