Lymph question

Has anyone here tried the lymph drainage? I have been reading about it and is ‘supposed’ to help but after trying other things that didn’t I wondered if anyone here had.
Thanks SueT.

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Hi Sue, good to see you’re looking for new treatments!

One of my manual therapists did a bit of it on me, and I actually felt it did help a bit. As he didn’t continue it, I had another try doing it on myself using youtube videos and that also had a slight effect, but I somehow felt i didn’t need it that much at that time. I think there were times in the past where I’d’ve benefited more from it.

So I think its potential will be higher if you are or feel a bit swollen or have vascular problems, not just the feeling of heaviness or not being able to walk well alone. Then I think it can improve the fluidity of your movements.

So “s’posed to help” is the question help what for (exactly)

Thing is of course nothing helps and everything helps, cos it just depends, and it’s difficult to know without trying if it’ll help or not. I’ve heard / read people try it every now and then. Like on a thread here where I shared new research that it works @Lmd answered that it did help:

Generally - if the description of how it works resonates with your symptoms, that’ll help decide. Like the research suggest, I’d actually always recommend to try it and see / feel if it’s right at the moment or might be in other moments. Personally, I’d try it on youtube first to get a first impression.
If it’s viable now and nothing else is more promising or viable, I’d go for it.

I believe just cos other things didn’t help that shouldn’t stop us from trying anything. It’s only when people try telling me I need to do something much longer altho it’s harming me or something that isn’t viable or promising for my body.
I’d long put off trying LDN, cos it didn’t seem that promising, seemed weird, possibly harmful. But I hadn’t had anything better to try any more. And used my experience how things may harm and help me. So started with a dose far lower than the recommended lowest starting point, so I made sure it hardly harmed even if it praps didn’t help yet. Turns out my starting dose of 0.07mg hardly harmed, but did help quite a bit, even a crucial bit and increasing is also hardly harming (but not helping more as yet). Similarly if I started lymph drainage again I’d start with youtube, then I’d go for a few sessions and see how they do it - to possibly see how not to do it, if they’re not gentle enough and don’t know their way with fibro and then return to trying self-treatment… I’d also consider going there and continuing self-treatment in between (esp. if there are long breaks in between) to train by comparing what they do and what I do.

Never heard of that before and mine are swollen on the right side. Still, makes my hair stand up on the end and my toes curl. Now I have to do a lot of reading.

Hi JayCS,
Thanks for your replay about the lymph drainage. I haven’t decided what to do about it yet, I am one indecisive person. For the last few months my back has again been worse, and so my stomach has been worse also. I also do feel swollen and ‘heavy’, so Graham thought that it might help. It seems that everything I have tried over the years hasn’t helped at all, and in some cases made things worse.

I will be looking into you tube and see if I can get any ideas, but maybe going for a session or two will give me a better idea about it all. I hope that won’t be any ‘side effects’ as I don’t think I can put up with anything else these days.

The NHS here has been getting even worse, people are being told to stay away from doctors surgeries unless it is a ‘real’ emergency, and to phone 111 or go to A&E. Then we are told not to go to A&E because they are too stressed these days. Seems to have been getting worse for years now and over 7,000 people just waiting to start treatment.

Hope that you are ok, how is the garden? It’s been so wet here, the few roses still about look so bedraggled.

Take care,

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Hi PsyberTech,

All I seem to do lately is read and try to find ‘something’ that will hopefully help. I don’t know if mine are swollen but my body feels a bit like that.

Take care,

Well that’s put it a bit negatively, I think indecision when we’ve made so many bad experiences can be healthy: cautious maybe… On the other hand here, I can’t imagine it hurting that much/long, and making sure they know will help.

What a pity the NHS is going downhill even more, you’d think the bottom has been reached…

Thanks, I’m a bit better (more energy, less stiff) since using LDN, hoping it’s not fake, and will increase. Yesterday bad cos of re-starting my 3 CVD-meds after a months break, so I’ve stopped again, OK again today, and will be introducing them one after the other and starting lower, maybe 1 or 2mg of just the bp one instead of 4mg and see how that goes. My reactions to many things are the same day.

The garden’s fine, still a few 100 blossoms, planted 30 spring bulbs into the meadow and one more flagstone so the grass around it can keep growing better, lots of green. Thankfully more moss is coming back too. When it rains or after I love marvelling at the sparkling beads on the flowerless roses and others. I love the rain itself too, altho it’s not me that it makes grow ;), but I can feel and see how the plants need it and everything grows green. I’m excited how this winter will be different to the one before, whether my support and allowing everything to stay put and wild will let even more things come up, which they are actually doing already even now. I’m astonished how most of the leaves on the big cherry and the 5 medium sized trees are still green. And how much the vine is growing, I’d cut it back completely cos I thought it was dead ivy, now it’s spread itself over most of a grey concrete wall, 140 sq ft., and starting to turn a bit red, too.
Wow, while writing a great woodpecker was 10 yards away hacking away at the bronze conifer dead wood I’d put around a pavilion as deco, never realized that’d come in useful too. (Black-red Squirrel jumping around fetching and burying hazelnuts nearby too. Sweet robin trying to copy great tits getting sunflower seeds, but not able to.)
Woodpecker in the middle, sunflower (which had 1 big and 6 small heads) to the left, vine above, boxwood to the right looks bigger on the pic cos up front,… See which of the 3 pics works best online… hmm, maybe all cos it gives the impression like on the tape of it how he’s hacking away at the 8 month old dead wood like a hammer drill.

Hi JayCS,
My husband has always said I am a ‘negative person’ although I try not to be, but when I am in pain all the time it’s hard to be anything else. We did text to the person about the lymph drainage but haven’t heard about so no idea what she does, or what she charges. After spending too much money on the Bowen thing I am somewhat sceptical about anything else that says it will help. I so want ‘something’ to reduce the pain, but know that I will be worse off it I go for it-and it doesn’t help. My whole body seems to be worse, so think I will look into my diet yet again and see if anything pops up.

We did think the NHS would start to improve, but no sign of it yet, unfortunately.

Glad to hear that you are a bit better, long may it continue.

Thanks for the lovely pics of the woodpecker, how lucky you were to see it. I have often heard them when they drill on the trees, but haven’t seen one in years, nor a cuckoo either. I think the building of so many houses here is destroying wildlife. Your garden looks lovely and green, I like the rain too, as long as I am not caught out in it when I have to go shopping. Still just about manage that, but later on and into the next days is worse.

It’s been very wet here lately, but out youngest son in Sweden has already got their first snowfall. While our older son in Oz is in summer time Lol.

Take care, best wishes,

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Hi Sue -

Yeah, pain can make our emotional state pessimistic, make it hard to think straight or positive, and make us wary of trying new things. I do manage to be positive all the time, and work constantly on my attitude to keep it that way (like writing down ‘things to be cheerful’ every day). But I’m still wary about trying new things, it’s always a leap of faith.

Now only doing things alone makes it easier to try them, cos I’m in control and can start much lower and go slower than any therapist. So it’s not so much a leap any more.

That said I now have a new uro diagnosis after a bladder exam obviously injured me (cos I was “screaming” for 3 days after), altho the uro who did it claims it’s purely genetic (whilst all studies say it’s usually trauma). So even trusting docs for an exam is dangerous, not the first time I’ve seen that, in my first 6 months I had many exams as well as treatments that caused weeks to months of severe pain, glad that’s over. The doc now says the med he’s prescribed is very safe, won’t hurt me - on wikipedia all 10 side effects mentioned are typical things I('d) get. Do I trust him on that, after he said the bladder exam won’t hurt? It did, altho after was twice as bad, pain of 8-9, not 5-6 :angry:

My wife is the ‘negative person’ and when she hears I’m gonna try something new she gets anxious, cos she knows what’ll happen. She really wanted me to start on my CVD meds again cos she was fearing for my life cos of a vertigo attack, so first I and others had to help her understand that the vertigo attack may have seemed it at first, but had nothing to do with a stroke, my hospital stay resulted in that (that stay was again something that harmed and didn’t help at all). Then we realized that the CVD meds were ruining my quality of life, neutralizing all positive effects of the LDN, so she agreed to me stopping them and starting them extremely slowly. Now I’ve managed to get the blood pressure one up to 4mg (first target) without side effects by pulverizing the tablet and taking “8x0.5mg” more at daytime than at night. If I took 1.5mg at once or go up to 5mg I got problems again. Next I’ll start with 1 of the other 2 in the same way, definitely not rushing it.

Thing is if you go to a therapist it’s hard to say and pay for “2 minutes”. In the fibro clinic the physiotherapy didn’t even cost any extra of course, but harmed me, my main physiotherapist was at a loss and asked to just put me in one of those hanging machines, and I did him the favour to hold on the whole 20? minutes (it was OK for 5 minutes, but then felt like 20 hours). Other therapists similar, my acupressurist, my acupuncturists they got carried away, and I thought I have to try to hold on, altho it was killing me, who knows, it might help. With my Chinese acupuncturist I was better and always told her when something was hurting too much or I need to go to the toilet or anything. Bottom line after all that time: keeping everything short.

I wrote my Chinese acupuncturist a mail when I wanted to start, and after she didn’t reply for a month or so, I phoned, and she could immediately give me appointments. So I think it may be better to repeat or better choose a different “canal” in case it was overlooked?

Yeah, best would be to tackle something you know would be better for you and not worse, but you haven’t managed to do it yet, like better sleep discipline. But diet should be one of the least evils to look at again, and doesn’t cost too much…

What made you think that, did someone make promises?

Still am, possibly even increasing, I can go for a 20’ brisk walk every day now, only getting nauseous towards the end.
Just had to manage the bp med, but engineered that, so am increasing both the LDN first, and then starting on specks of a lipid med. Actually the combination is quite good, cos if I can hardly move anyway I wouldn’t see how much the meds are harming. Now I can, but then can’t any more when I take a med I know I have to go lower and slower.

Yeah, we live in a built-up area already, but with quite good gardens. But what is also destroying wildlife is people keeping their gardens squeaky clean, with few unnatural, bought plants, instead of just letting the natural wild plants and everything grow and piling dead wood everywhere. Neighbours are “cleaning up” their gardens and are thankful that I’m taking all their branches, twigs and leaves, putting the pretty ones into pots with water until they wilt and stripping the leaves off the rest for compost, and using the branches and twigs for insect, mouse and hedgehog hotels. Also not cutting off anything wilted and spreading guinea pig straw everywhere, so that the insects can hibernate in in all the stalks. Only cutting off some celandine leaves, cos they’re still flourishing better if I do so. Still some new blossoms on some flowers. Whilst I was cutting the neighbours’ branches up blackbird was singing softly, and robin came right up to me and showed me by jumping into my dead wood piles that he thought it was brilliant what I was doing for them. (Ah, I’ll put that in my “Reasons to be Cheerful”) :open_hands:. Oh, and the first cranes were coming over, about 50 is a good start, it’ll get to be 1000s soon.

Yeah rain used to give me a cold quick, now I’m packed so thick and warm all the time, double hoodies, long johns and if necessary rain legs over my thighs when cycling or to keep warm, 5 pairs of socks and winter shoes with soles most of the year anyway. When we go for a walk, my wife takes an umbrella, I don’t, when she thinks I’m wet, I say no I’m warm and dry, it’s only the outer hoodie… :grinning: Makes it fun to be independent, and I so need the fresh air, it makes me feel ill and breathless to be indoors.

Hehe, are they that opposite characters too, or is the place they are in exchangeable, they’re just keen to be elsewhere?

Hi JayCS,
Been a while to get back here but not feeling too good lately, my back etc are awful. Your bladder exam sounds horrific, which does make it even harder to trust anyone who says they might be able to help. I’m not surprised your wife gets anxious at anything new you might try, my husband is not too bad, but feels I should be doing more exercising. There are stairs here, about 12 of them to an upper floor and I tried going up then twice and then have been feeling really bad ever since. Not saying it was going up the stairs did it, but I do wonder. I want to do more, but am so worried about making things even worse.

Any physiotherapy I had was a waste of time-theirs and mine, it was no help at all, and no idea what the ‘hanging machine’ is you mentioned. I’ve tried chiropractors. osteopath, acupuncture, and physio over the years and no help with anything.

As to the lymph drainage, we finally managed to get hold of the woman, only to find out that she has decided not to do it any more, so that is now ‘out’. I may look for someone else or look around for another therapy. I can’t even get a group together here to meet up for coffee and a chat as I can’t get any help from the surgery about other suffering patients with fibro.

Sleep discipline, not sure about, I don’t sleep well at all, I massage my legs and put pain gel/cream on but they seem to ache most of the night. Along with all the other aches/pains.

No, the NHS didn’t promise me anything personally, I’ve not even tried to get an appointment for some time as I just get told ‘it’s the fibro’. My brother in law was let down a few times with appointments. He has COPD and has trouble breathing sometimes but still finds it very hard to get to see anyone. He also has lumps on his body which they said they had no money to do the op, now they say they can afford to remove one lump-but it may leave him with a twitch, so don’t think he will risk it.

It is pretty built up here as well, although it is a small town, there is a park about a mile away but haven’t made it there yet. I really do miss having my own garden, and being able to potter about doing what I want in it. Sounds as if you have a lot of fun in yours. Does your wife garden at all? Oh, I do love robins, we have one that comes to peck at the fat ball we have put up just outside our lounge window.

As to our two boys, yes they are sort of ‘opposite’. Luke the youngest one is a lot more outgoing than Mark who seems to prefer his own company. He does have a good job though, and Luke is now a qualified commercial pilot, something he has been wanting to do since his first lesson when we lived in the USA. Worrying, but it’s what he wants to do.

Hope that you are feeling well today, keep going.

Take care,

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Oh dear, Sue, I do hope you find something.
I can only repeat that for me now, esp. after going “everywhere” youtube is best, in fact brilliant.

This is the hanging machine, but this won’t be helpful, I shouldn’t think. Looking at it now I can see that the bit under my tailbone will have killed me, I can’t lie on my tailbone longer than 4 minutes - whilst the rest does sort of unburden the weight of the body somehow, like water does.

Ah that’s why the lymph drainage woman didn’t answer…
Again: youtube…?

For the support group why not try putting an ad in some local analogue or digital newspaper?

With sleep discipline/hygiene I get it that getting pain down seems more important, so I’m not sure either. But I do think I could have stopped using screens before bedtime (from 7pm on) even when I didn’t know what to do about the pain, and I’d never have thought that getting my eyes looking into the sun or if need be a daylight lamp as early as possible would be that easy to do and to get a change. It was just hearing that and doing it. Quite a bit more, but these were the main new ones. NSDR to substitute sleep I was already doing, I find it more restorative than shallow sleep.

Yeah, I definitely have learnt to love my garden. My wife prefers animals to plants, she doesn’t garden at all, apart from asking me not to cut things back unless necessary, she likes it wild and lush too, which is great. She took some getting used to all my dead wood and untidiness (what will the neighbours say?), but the dead wood being good for animals reconciles her, and she’s realized that the neighbours in our house understand that too. The neighbour next door we don’t like anyway, for reasons like cos when it was only half ours she came round and asked only the other person, and then cut off most of our hazel tree, cos it was too much of a shadow. Busybody. So when she once said something like “wow, your grass is really running rampant” my wife answered “yeah, great, innit?” So she defends the wildness outwardly.

Yeah, good day again today, thanks - cos of not taking any of my statin for my lipids and so not getting side effects. Can’t tolerate even 1mg, but have developed 3 workarounds, which I’ll be trying from Monday on.

Hope you can have a nice weekend and week, considering!