Tomorrow is Thanksgiving. I have 3 children, the oldest lives in Tennessee with her husband and little boy. They were back about a month ago the finish up things with their home here that sold, so they won’t be back out till probably next spring. My youngest daughter and son live less than 10 miles from me - she has a small farm and my son lives with her, helping with things there. He is down here at least once a week to visit and help with things here.
Up until 3 1/2 years ago I was part of an Old Order horse and buggy church (not Amish, but very similar). When I left, I was shunned (I was told I would not be) - those in the church have very limited contact with me, including my youngest daughter. My son is not a member but attends meetings and follows their teaching. Not being a member though, the church can not force him to shun me.
Even though my daughter is less than 10 miles away, she seldom will come by. She calls only when there is something she needs or wants from me. If I call she will not talk to me, unless she has too. Whenever I stop by to pick up my son there is very limited conversation with her - she is “busy” and doesn’t have time to visit. Most times I don’t even see her. I can count only about 6 times in the last 3 1/2 years when she has eaten a meal with me. She has even delayed dishing up a meal, so that she doesn’t risk having me stay. She will not ride in any vehicle, for any reason, if I am driving; but she has no trouble asking me to pick things up in town. Basically she (and the rest of the church) feels that because I left the church, I am damned and going to hell.
Tomorrow is Thanksgiving. My son is coming down in the afternoon sometime for dinner, my daughter declined to accept my invitation. When I was talking to him this evening he said his sister told him I could come up Saturday - they were going to have a big dinner then. Turns out that they are planning on having a work day to put up a shop for my son - so most of them from the church will be there. I feel rather like a sheep walking into a den of wolves. If I go I will get a lot of subtle and not-so-subtle comments about making my life right, getting right with the Lord, making things right with the church, etc. It’s not going to be a relaxing day by any means. Yet if I don’t go, I will be slammed for that choice as well.
My other concern is Covid-19. Numbers around here are spiking like crazy. I try to be very careful - limiting trips to town, going only where I have to and limiting how long I am in any one place. I haven’t gone to church since March (I catch the online service instead) and try to limit contact with others in general. I know my daughter isn’t as careful, nor are most of the others in the church. I probably shouldn’t have as much contact with my son as I do, except my mother-heart won’t let me say no when I know he needs help (same goes with my daughter) or when he asks if he can come down to visit.
I guess the difference being they are not actively shunning you, yet fear the contact with you for themselves or in front of the others… They need all these ‘compromises’ to be able to live with this fear, to feel ‘clean’…
I’d have a problem with my daughter “telling” my son, instead of me, that I “could” come, and with her “allowing” it. I’d prefer the slamming for not going to the hurtful comments, attitude and looks. I’d need separation and counseling to become strong and perhaps one day manage to go there feeling like a proud strong good sheep who really believes in Love, Grace and Forgiveness among scaredy-cats.
If you go it seems like you are partaking in - actually - a church event. Instead, for both reasons, I’d offer an alternative - a tiny meeting there with him (and her?). This offering could make you stronger, because more active, instead of submitting to the system. (Isn’t ‘putting up a shop’ actually a church-system event?)
Your son isn’t CoV-careful either? Well you could sacrifice your health… but then just keep calm. Or you can hope that you are one of the fibromites who don’t get severe CoV - up to now, I’ve heard of one who has got severe “Long” Covid and two who didn’t evem have their FMS-pain while the CoV-sickness lasted!.. so keep calm and just wait and accept what comes. Or you can keep distance, meet only outside, wear a thick mask… but still meet without getting CoV, even if he has it… After all you are limiting all except your most important contacts, what more could you ask of yourself?
But this is definitely a very good reason *not to go to this event, to protect many people, an act of Love, loving your neighbour as yourself.
You are not overreacting - this is a very hairy emotional situation for you and completely OK to ask for support. I hope I could give you some ideas to ponder on?
My grandma told me she was talking to my daughter recently about how the church is shunning me and how they are treating me, why and all that. She said my daughter told her that all I had to do was tell the church I was sorry and everything would be fine. Grandma asked her if she really wanted me to lie? My daughter didn’t understand what she was meaning. So Grandma told her that obviously I truly felt I had nothing to apologize for and therefore I didn’t see a need to say sorry. So if I told the church I was sorry, when I wasn’t, just to make peace - then I was lying. She asked my daughter again if she really wanted me to lie and say I was sorry when I wasn’t but she didn’t have an answer. My grandma told her that I was damned if I did and damned if I didn’t - If I don’t apologize to the church then I will continue to be shunned. If I do apologize, when I am not sorry, then I am lying, which of course is a sin and the church teaches that is wrong. So I can’t win either way, can I?
The work day Saturday isn’t a church event per say, like a church service. My son is building a woodworking shop. So they are having a work day. Essentially it is a way to get many hands working on a larger project to help get more done in a short period of time. In this case there will be a few from the church and a couple from the carpentry crew my son is on.
And he tries to be careful with Covid. He wears a mask when he goes to town, doesn’t make unnecessary trips, etc. On the job, they wear a mask if they are working indoors, etc. - if they are roofing they usually don’t since they are outside and not working close together. But I don’t think my daughter is as careful and I am not sure the others in the church are either.
First: As a believer you have of course already “won”: Since Calvary, since Easter Sunday. I think it’s important in these situations to always remind yourself of that, first and last… No people, even the holiest-seeming church people, can rob you of that.
Next: Sorry for what? You are perhaps sorry if people misunderstand you that you are shunning them or want to hurt them. But you are not sorry for leaving the church and following your conscience in your way. Of course your daughter doesn’t understand your Grandma, because her truth is rigid and unempathic… I don’t know if that’s an idea for you, but it would be possible to say the first one and perhaps they wouldn’t even realize that you are leaving out the second part? But again it’s of course up to you to decide if you want to condone this sort of a system by doing so…
They of course don’t want you to lie, what they want is for you to repent something. You probably don’t want to repent, say anything you’ve done was wrong, if so - even if it is only a little thing - that might be a slight compromise. But perhaps it is possible for you to say you’re sorry for something easy (‘sorry if I hurt someone in the process’) without repenting. If you are looking for peace, then praps a larger part of them will take this. I don’t know if I’d be prepared for that. After all, your grandma was talking with your daughter, and you weren’t there. On the other hand you seem to be agreeing with your grandma, which I wouldn’t, because the strategy of saying you have nothing to apologize for is not looking for a peaceful solution and so it is the same as just saying: No. Which is perfectly OK to do. And which would just mean fully accepting that the church is shunning you and even being pleased about that… You don’t seem to agree with their system and their system is fairly totalitarian, they need you to at least pretend to or partly agree. (What exactly do they want you to say sorry for? Or what would be a way of putting it that they might be able to put up with?)
Yeah, I realize a work day is not like a church service. But them being Amish-like I thought would have meant that the carpentry crew people belong to the church too… And now it sounds like 3+3=6 people, and I thought it was like 30 (or 300 ) or so, because you wrote “most of them from the church will be there”?
Not sure what the CoV-problem is then, if your want to keep contact to your son and he wears a mask? Don’t you just have to keep away from the rest, and if he is with them, from him, too? That’s how I do it, anyway.
Wow, StrugglinginKs - I’m sorry that you had to face this over the holiday. It is mind boggling to me that people will use up so much energy showing unacceptance, avoidance and harshness, but even more so, that someone would treat their loving parent this way. With Covid raging, in our nation, I would choose to avoid the large gathering (and the stress that would come with it, in your situation).
I am very sorry that your children can’t respect your reasons for leaving their way of life. I have a great respect for you, in following your own convictions, but still reaching out to your children in love.
Please let us know how your holiday went and how you and your family are doing now. Seeing all you’ve already been through, I’ve no doubt that, whatever the choice, you carried it out with grace and love.
My son was able to come down for a couple of hours on Thanksgiving. His sister had a list of things that suddenly just had to be done, so wasn’t for as long as either of us had hoped for but at least he was able to come. Thankful for that.
I didn’t go on Saturday. They had their work day and it sounds like it went well. I think they said they had 13 there most of the day, which is a surprisingly good turn out given that the community is very small yet with just under 2 dozen people.
I don’t think my daughter was to happy that I skipped, but she will either get over it or she won’t - I’m not going to change her mind, so I’m not going to worry about it.
Usually I handle all of it pretty well. It hurts, but with time comes acceptance I guess. Basically, when I left, I lost my family, my friends and my church in one fell swoop - for the church community was all 3 for me. I have family outside of the church, but none are close. It has taken time but slowly I have begun to develop new friendships and I have a new church home - even if I only attend online now due to Covid. Making new friends might be a faster endeavor if I didn’t let the depression, anxiety, pain/fatigue and trust issues get in the way.
Bless your heart, StrugglinginKs!
I’m so glad your son came to have Thanksgiving with you, even if for a short time. It sounds like he loves you very much. I know your daughter loves you, too, and doesn’t see how much this “shunning” hurts you. Hopefully, in time, she will come around.
I understand what it is like to lose a church family. I had played piano for my church for over 20 yrs, when I had to quit due to FMS and arthritis in my hands and wrists. Since I was still able to work, I was too tired many weekends to attend church. It hurt so much to give up those friends. I still speak occasionally with some, but it is not the same. This is nothing, compared to what you’ve gone through, but I can understand some of your pain. You are a brave and compassionate woman, and please don’t let any group or person make you feel any other way.
@strugglinginKs I am so sorry you had to go through all of this. I am very happy you did get to see your son. As for the church it sounds like my experience with a church. You have to do what makes you happy and not what makes others happy. If you feel you did nothing wrong then you stick to that and hold onto your pride. The church shouldn’t be doing any kind of outdoor or indoor events or work days due to COVID. It’s just my opinion. I suppose if everyone wore a mask and remained 6 feet and also washed their hands often it would be okay. I got diagnosed with COVID-19 last month and being a Heart Transplant and Kidney Transplant recipient I was scared as hell. BUT I pulled through. I was only around 1 person. My best friend got it from her nephew who had gone to see my nephew and voila. COVID-19 for everyone. It takes one person to make it all go horribly wrong so I’m glad you stayed home. It doesn’t matter how many people are there. You don’t know how each person is taking care of themselves. They could be lax on washing their hands or they could have COVID and be walking around thinking the mask will protect them from giving it to others. I’m not saying be a hermit and stay in your home, just try to stay away from groups of people.
I hope you are able to find a new group to be comfortable with. Change no matter what it is can make us sad and depressed. Sometimes its the kick in the butt we needed to get out of there and to get to a better church or group. Aside from the church you will always have us. You may not get to see us in person but there are plenty of people here who will help out as they already do and give you support.
I am glad to hear you are doing better after getting COVID. The numbers here are still going up and some people still won’t wear a mask. I try not to worry (I am SO good at it though!) - I try to limit my trips to town, time spent in stores/around people, wash hands often, use hand sanitizer, always wear a mask, etc.
Where are you located @strugglinginKs. Forgive me if I asked you this. My memory is like charcoal when it turns into dust. Good for you as it seems like you are doing what you can to stay healthy. I am 100% all better. Thank you. Not something I want to go through again.
I am in north central Kansas. We are classed as rural here but have some larger towns/cities within an hour or so. And don’t worry if you asked me before - I don’t remember either. LOL I used to say I had pregnancy brain or baby brain, but with my youngest turning 19 last month I can’t really blame it on them any more. And since I am not old enough to claim to be senile yet, I joke that I have Swiss cheese brain.
) or so, because you wrote “most of them from the church will be there”?
Making new friends might be a faster endeavor if I didn’t let the depression, anxiety, pain/fatigue and trust issues get in the way. 